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Parts of this message can be found in the following threads:
>From: Lesley Grant <lgrant@maths.tcd.ie>
>Subject: Cherryhlist
>Date: Tue, 14 Sep 93 15:32:11 BST

> >From: Onno Meyer <Onno.Meyer@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de>
> 
> I think we're talking about different "recent"s . My idea was: the han
> was set up after the first contact, when Hani still uses bows and arrows,
> but knew about the possibility of starships. The han is made up by the
> "regular" clans, and immunes are officers of the han. Immune clans  
> are set up to protect a vital ressource. When the hani industrialized,
> more and more jobs became vital, and more and more clans should be 
> immune.

	I think it's a question of what 'vital' means to the hani: it
used to mean things necessary to maintaining the smooth flow of pre-
industrial economics. The Llun guarded some important waterway, didn't
they? Very few Immune clans are needed, if it's only some centrally
important thing that they safeguard (and as Cherryh explicitly calls
the set-up an amphictyony, the organisation of the society as a collection
of clans based around a culturally important place/whatever is clear).
In industrial times, the Immunes still do jobs that are so centrally
important that there must be no sudden change in the board of directors:
the Llun now manage the station, for example. Other centrally important
places would include the shipyard, banks, vital on-world resources. The
only 'mobile' Immune clan that we see is Ehrran, which safeguards the
interests of the han. As the han is a relatively recent invention, Ehrran's
position is probably equally recent (the han is clearly the central point
of an amphictyony of amphictyonies; as the han is everywhere where hani
are, so its Immunes need to travel). But the point is, it isn't the
job that becomes vital, it's always a place/thing. There's no need for
a clan that makes basic tools to be Immune, but if the factory where they
make those tools supplies an entire continent, then there is a reason.

> I see two possible hani societies:
> (1) In the lower classes, the clan structure looses importance. While
>     everybody is still a member of a clan, these hani live like humans
>     do: Single houses/flats as opposed to a clan compound, working
>     for somebody they have to family ties to, etc.
> (2) The society remains organized along clan lines. No industrial 
>     venture can have more than a few hundred workers. As a result,
>     a lot of the work is subcontracted to other clans, who will
>     be subcontracting themselves.
>     This will lead to incredibly complex business relationships
>     among the clans, and the producer of screws (or screwdrivers)
>     will be as important for all hani as the custodian of the
>     river dams were some centuries ago. Thus, every monopoly
>     or even market-controlling venture will have to become immune
>     to prevent the disruption of the service. Do you remember what
>     happened to the computer industry when the plant in Japan burned
>     down?

	I think option (2) is more likely: those subcontracted clans are
allies, vassals and minor-branch clans. The clan that eventually makes
the screwdrivers won't become Immune, but the clan that owns the lands
on which they make the screwdrivers might. Business relationships do get
really complicated, because they're the same as political/family relationships.
Eg, Chanur does business with its major allies (Mahn), its minor allies (Faha),
its minor-branch (Araun) and its vassals (Anify) [Anify seems to me to be
both a minor-branch and a vassal: it just seems like it's far enough away
to be moving towards independence slowly]. If any of those clans were to
become Immune, however, it's likely to be the main-clan that holds the ties
of blood and vassalage -- simply because, as the largest and most powerful
group, it's the one likeliest to be situated on the most important area
of the region, from which it would already have been drawing pre-Immune
prestige.

> >From: goldman@orac.cray.com (Goldman of Chaos -- postmaster CRI-US)
 
> gaming stuff:  Lately I've been really disappointed with the 
> <deleted> material from GDW.  Before I dive in and write my own,
> has anyone every seen a source book for any gaming system that 
> uses background from CJ Cherryh's universe?  Having just read 
> 40,000 in Gehenna, Rim Runners, Cyteen I-III, and Downbelow 
> Station in _very_ rapid sequence, I want to set my new Traveller
> universe there.  Anyone who wants to talk about this further with 
> me offline is welcome to.  

	Jo and I have talked about this a lot. Nothing much has
happened, as Jo is determined to work out how Cherryh's ships work
before doing anything else. I've never seen a source book, unfortunately,
but there is a bit of technical stuff in the boardgame "The Company War".
At the moment in our Traveller campaign there's just a few cherryhish
things -- jump effects humans as per the books, but is crossed with
standard Trav. jump to still take only 1 week real-time. We once came
across an NPC who seemed rather like an unsocialised Alpha azi. Merchants
come from family ships, stations are much like in Union/Alliance, and so
on. 
 
> I'll post the final results here or on an archive site when I'm done.
> The idea isn't to make money, the idea is to have a useful gaming
> resource.

	You wouldn't be the fellow Jo was talking to a long time ago about
writing a game set in U/A, would you? Why don't you give Jo a good prod
awake via direct mail (but don't expect an immediate reply, the new job
still doesn't understand what's truely important in life).

> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >From: "Nancy Silberstein" <silbersteinn@a1.mscf.upenn.edu>
> >Subject: Cherryhlist/Future Topics

	Count this as a show of hands from me! I'll be looking for the
book.

> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >From: bjgaed@ccmail.monsanto.com
> >Subject: So Long, cherryhlist

	Good luck in the new job. If and when you get e-mail, get back
in contact!

			Lesley


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