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What kind of mission was Tully on?



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>Date: Tue, 07 Sep 93 01:44:01 -0400
>From: "Nancy Silberstein" <silbersteinn@a1.mscf.upenn.edu>
>Subject: Cherryhlist\Pride
(...)

I am peregrinating slowly through PRIDE, endeavoring to notice Important Points, and doubtless missing every future topic of discussion.

(...)

I also noted that Pyanfar was surprised because Tully's ship was unarmed. I dare say they would have been had they known of the Compact species.

(...)

Tully hears knnn singing on ship's intercom and conveys to Pyanfar that his ship encountered Compact species first in knnn space, "between stsho and kif."
njs  6-SEP-1993 21:13  


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>From: Onno Meyer <Onno.Meyer@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de>
>Subject: cherryhlist
>Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1993 11:14:15 +0200 (MET DST)
> I also noted that Pyanfar was surprised because Tully's ship was unarmed.  
> I dare say they would have been had they known of the Compact species.
To you believe Tully? It would have been completely reasonable for him to lie, and he didn't knew the hani that well.
Even if he attempted to tell the truth, nobody knows what the translator made of his sentence. He could have said "not a warship" or something similar. In the introduction of _DS_ it was stated that Earth/EC probes had always been armed, but these probes would be no match for a carrier or a dartship, thus they could be counted as semi-civilian craft.

(...)
Onno Meyer


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>Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1993 11:44:44 EDT
>From: davis@licre.ludwig.edu.au
>Subject: cherryhlist
(...)
>I also noted that Pyanfar was surprised because Tully's ship was unarmed.
>I dare say they would have been had they known of the Compact species.
I was surprised by this as well. Tully was surely lying about this. To send an unarmed ship into unknown space while the Mazianni are still about (are they Onno?) is inconceivable. Tully was not known to tell the whole truth always.

(...)
Ian Davis                                    davis@licre.ludwig.edu.au


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>From: Onno Meyer <Onno.Meyer@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de>
>Subject: cherryhlist
>Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1993 10:30:02 +0200 (MET DST)
> I was surprised by this as well.  Tully was surely lying about this.  To 
> send an unarmed ship into unknown space while the Mazianni are still about 
> (are they Onno?) is inconceivable.  Tully was not known to tell the whole 
> truth always.
This is one of the many unanswered questions. The compact books can be dated only with an accuracy of about 40 years, and the Mazianni were around in the early part of this time. However, nobody knows when the last one died/surrendered.

BTW, there is a small point that supports the "unarmed ship" claim. The Ulysses was able to dock on a compact station. Unless compact docks are highly adaptable (nonsense - that's what standards are made for) or the two systems fit nearly (not really probable), the docking mechanism of the Ulysses has to be highly adaptable, designed to dock with alien stations. In my opinion, that could indicate that the Ulysses was designed to make a first contact with aliens. In this case, an unarmed ship is possible (it would travel with carriers waiting wether it returns or not).

I believe that Tully simply lied about weapons, but this is another possibility.

(...)
Onno Meyer 


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;Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 01:36:00 PDT
;From: seth@cie-2.uoregon.edu (Master Nethacker)
;Subject: C.J. Cherryh List
(...)

Also, i wondered if Tully would've fared any better if he had some sort of hand-to-hand training, or some sort of weapons training... I definitely got the impression that, as he said, he IS just a nobody, a Joe Spacer of sorts...

(...)
		Seth


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;Subject: cherryhlist
;Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 10:13:21 +0100 (MET)
;From: Onno Meyer <Onno.Meyer@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de>
> Also, i wondered if Tully would've fared any better if he had some sort of
> hand-to-hand training, or some sort of weapons training... I definitely got
> the impression that, as he said, he IS just a nobody, a Joe Spacer of sorts...
> 		Seth
This touches the question wether that first contact was a really random event or wether Tully's ship was sent to investigate the knnn transmission.

However, even if Tully was part of a dedicated first contact team, he still was a scan_tech_. If you consider how fast he learned to use alien systems, he probably was a very good tech, not a nobody, but unable to use his skills most of the time. If he was part of a military or paramilitary force, he would have had some combat training (he used alien firearms with some success, didn't he?). But I don't think that even a commando soldier could have defendend himself against a whole bunch of elite kif with bare hands.

(...)
Onno


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;Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 11:13:33 +0100
;From: Markus Stumptner <mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at>
;Subject: cherryhlist
>Also, i wondered if Tully would've fared any better if he had some sort of
>hand-to-hand training, or some sort of weapons training... I definitely got
>the impression that, as he said, he IS just a nobody, a Joe Spacer of sorts...
I agree. Also, this was one of the arguments that went towards convincing me that his ship indeed was an exploratory ship, not a military one on a mission of conquest.

(...)
	Markus


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;Subject: cherryhlist - Tully
;Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 10:01:42 +0100 (MET)
;From: Onno Meyer <Onno.Meyer@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de>
> (...)
> I agree.  Also, this was one of the arguments that went towards
> convincing me that his ship indeed was an exploratory ship, not
> a military one on a mission of conquest.
Do you think a crewman on a carrier would have the combat training of a trooper? Of course all military personell would have some combat training (Pollard got excused from unarmed combat because of his comp skill), but not on a level to fight the handpicked thugs of a hakkikt, and humans have no claws like Kif, Hani and, to a lesser extent, Mahendo'sat.

I agree that this was no military conquest mission, since such a mission would have been flown by one or more carriers. I think it is unlikely that a carrier that has any survivors at all would have only four survivors out of 4000 crew and troops. Those four humans were no away team, either, since a first contact group would have consisted of communications people, not scan.
The only warship that would leave four survivors after it is crippled is a dartship, but earth has no darts and they're not used for scouting but for hit-and-run.

What do you think?
Onno

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